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Community organizing, lessons from

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Ontario's grassroots disability
accessibility campaign,

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David Lepofsky, Chair, Accessibility for
Ontarians with Disabilities Act Alliance.

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Delivered at the Osgoode Hall Law School,
January

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31st, 2014 as a Roy McMurtry Clinical
Fellow.

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>> Good afternoon everyone.

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In other parts of this lecture series I'm
talking about the history of our

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accessibility movement and the legal and
practical

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and policy issues we faced and so on.

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Today is gonna be very different.

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I wanna talk to you about practical
strategies, that I

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have learned over 20 or more years doing
community organizing advocacy.

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On how to be effective, as a community
organizer or advocate.

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I'm not boosting by saying here are all
the great things that I and my

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coalition do if only you could just do the
things we do you'll be a success.

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We have learned, I have learned as much
from mistakes as from successes.

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And what I'm gonna bring together for you
now is a collection of successes.

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It is, it's hard to find things written on
this.

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This isn't what we normally teach in law

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school, and it's not the unique preserve
of lawyers.

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On the other hand, there are instances
that we can

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look to of people who graduated from a
good law school.

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Learned and became active as a community
organizer

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and went on to some pretty good things.

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One of them, one individual that comes to
mind, his name is Barack Obama, so,

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there's lots of people to learn from,
who've done work in this area.

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also, on your law school curriculum, there
are

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books on this, there are books worth
reading, the.

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Probably the best, the earliest and still
the Bible

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are books by Sole Alinsky, A-L-I-N-S-K-Y-,
rules for reticles.

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And reti-, [INAUDIBLE] for reticles from
the, from the fifties and the sixties.

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A community organizer who set the stage
and from whom we all learned.

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He went from being a radical self
described, to being taught now as

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regular course material in social work
programs

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social work schools around around the
world.

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Let me offer you some high point themes.

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And I'm gonna get into a series of
practical activities that one might

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face when you're doing community
organizing for

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any kind of community, and community
advocacy.

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This will be useful whether you are
playing

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the role of the lawyer, or not playing

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the role as a lawyer as a, chair

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of the accessibility frontier with
disabilities act, committee.

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Before that the chair of disabilities act,
pardon me, accessibility alliance.

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And before that the.

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Ontario is to dispose of that committee, I
wasn't a lawyer, I was a,

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I was at a, in a volunteer leadership
role, and But the things I

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learned have informed my lawyering and
things

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I learned about lawyering, informed my
work

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as a community leader and organizer even
if I wasn't playing the role of counsel.

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A few general themes I want to, offer you

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at the start of, of, of, a more practical
tips.

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The first is, you are constantly learning.

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You are constantly learning.

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Everytime you try something.

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Everytime you think about trying to do
something, I encourage

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you to look at it, critique it, did it
work?

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What could we have done better?

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It is nothing like litigation it is
nothing in fact

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you have to turn off any training you've
got as

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a litigator often in litigation you're
trained to use specific

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rules to counter specific points to
achieve a certain litigation goal.

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In the arena of community organizing and
advocacy you sometimes have

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to do the exact opposite of what a
litigator would do.

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It is important to look for natural
allies.

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It may be a poli, if you're advocating on

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disability issues, it may be a politician
that has

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a spouse, or a child, or a parent with

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a disability or more, may themselves have
a disability.

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It may be one of their advisers who does.

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There are natural allies whatever be the
issue, wherever you are.

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They are often not readily apparent, they
require some investigating.

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But wherever you go, whatever you do
constantly be

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attuned for looking for someone who is a
natural ally.

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Once you find them, harness that
opportunity, get them on

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your side, find out what they can do to
help you.

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In a court proceeding, you make a
brilliant argument, you win the case.

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You get reasons for judgement and you know
your

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argument was the brilliant one that one
the case.

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In community advocacy, rarely is that the
case.

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You're constantly retuning your argument.

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And you never know which argument you
pitch, which

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idea you, present, which media ar,article
on a point.

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That comes out, drives home the message in
a way that

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actually changes the agenda of a
government or an opposition party.

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That means, keep trying and don't assume
you've

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only got one argument that's ever gonna
work.

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Whenever you are retuning your argument,
whenever

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you are trying to figure out what works.

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It's important to know that you have to

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be like in the litigation, sometimes there
are commonalities.

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You have to constantly be attuned to what
the other side might be thinking.

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If you're advocating for

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disability/accessibility legislation, be
ready for

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a government that is preoccupied with
cutting it's deficit.

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Be ready to show that what you're
proposing will

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save the government money, not cost the
government money.

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They may never tell you that's their
number

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one concern when they're in meetings with
you.

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They may think it would be inappropriate
to

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say that they don't wanna quote it back.

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But, you wanna know what they're really
thinking and and, and to be

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ready to counter arguments even before
they're made, even if they're never made.

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Now, now with those common themes in mind
let me jump right in.

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Number one, how do you frame your message?

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It's really important to try to get
whatever it is you're

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campaigning for down to a slogan, down to
a punchy one-liner.

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For the disability and community, we said
we want

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to achieve a barrier-free society for
people with disabilities.

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And we wanted a new law that would get us
there.

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You want to define that statement in a way
that no one's gonna disagree with you.

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Who's in favor of barriers against people
with disabilities?

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Who thinks they're a good idea?

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Who thinks more should be created?

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We might debate over how we're gonna get
rid of them.

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But we can happily agree we've got to get
rid of them, they're bad for society.

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So they a, the very argument, or the very

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statement of the goal a barrier free
society for people

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with disabilities becomes not only a flag
or a banner

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under which we can advocate, in itself is
a persuasion.

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In framing that message, we tried to avoid
terminology that will antagonize some.

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Traditionally in the human rights context,
we

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talk about discrimination because that's
what the

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law, the term the law uses in the charter
and the human rights codes.

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But the term discrimination gets people's
back up.

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Now, I'm not saying it's wrong to be in
the law.

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And, I'm not saying that human rights
lawyers shouldn't use them.

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But on the other hand, if you walk

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in a restaurant and say you're
discriminating against me

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because you have a, not walking, but if

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you have a wheelchair and you can't get
in.

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You say, your discriminating against me
because

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you have two steps to your front door.

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Number one, they never thought of it as
discrimination.

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Number two, the accusation discrimination,
can get people very antagonized.

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On the other hand if you say.

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Those two steps at your front door are a
barrier

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to my coming in and spending money in your
restaurant.

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For one thing, they can't deny it's a
barrier.

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And for another thing, they'd like you to
spend money in their restaurant.

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So you've now defined the barrier in a way

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that hurts, and individual with a
disability, and the business.

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Try to find terminology that will unite
everybody

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behind you, rather than defining and
antagonizing people.

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There's ways to turn an argument so it

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sounds stronger even though it's the same
information.

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We used to say that there is 17%

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of Ontario or 18% of the public have
disabilities.

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One day it occurred to us that the exact

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same number could be expressed in a more
powerful way.

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How about telling a politician that
there's

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1.8 million people who have a disability.

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And note by inflection when I say the M
word.

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All of a sudden, a politician in their
mind or

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their staffer starts to image what 1.8
million people looks like.

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That's a lot of people.

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That's not some small minority.

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They gotta be concerned about it.

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If you want to make this statement

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even stronger, call them voters with
disabilities.

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Cause unless they're kids under 18,
they're voters.

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And if you want the attention of
politicians tell them that we are 1.8

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million people with disabilities in
Ontario, tell

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them that because just proportionately
they are older.

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We will underestimate that there is at
least

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one million voters with disabilities in
the province

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and all of a sudden a politician is got to
sit up and listen that 18% figure.

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It sounds like it's a small little
minority relative

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to the the 82% who don't have a
disability.

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All of a sudden the number sounds more
powerful.

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But, even then, there's a way to make that
number even stronger and you'll see

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it in a number of the speeches that are
made on behalf of my coalition.

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We have defined people with disabilities
as

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the minority everyone, because every,
everyone either has

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a disability or knows someone near and
dear who has one, or will get one.

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So all of a sudden, we're not just 18%.

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We're not just 1.8 million people.

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We are potentially everyone.

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Now what politician really can't ignore
you because of the fact that they

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really don't want to be on the side of no
one against everyone.

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And in the back of their minds by saying
it that way they might sort of

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think about the fact if they don't have

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a disability yet, they too might get one
eventually.

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That involves literally redefining our
constituency

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in a way that includes everyone.

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And it's completely genuine.

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There are also ways to present your

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message in a way that becomes more
powerful.

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Even if it's the same message.

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Here's an illustration.

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In the olden days blind people argued for
braille.

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Deaf people for sign language, people in

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wheelchairs for ramps and the government
could see

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them as separate groups that they might
treat

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separately or even play off against each
other.

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When we unite behind the term barrier we

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are indeed now united and can't be
divided, but

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it gets even more powerful when it's the

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deaf person who argues about the need for
braille.

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The blind person who argues about the need

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for ramps and the person in the wheelchair
who

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talks about the need for sign language to

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show that we are speaking about each
other's needs.

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The exact same message by the same people
but by a little a

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little revolving assignment of the message
it becomes more powerful.

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There are so many other ways to to, to
talk about how to frame your message.

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These ideas I've just offered didn't all
come at once.

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They've evolved over years.

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Let me talk to you next about educating
the constituency

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or community that you're looking to
organize or to bring together.

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The public in governments and certainly
the media,

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thinks that every social group in society
is

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completely organized has a well oiled
spokes person,

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loaded up with money, press releases,
briefs and research.

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Ready to jump on any issue that just
happens to come up would that if were so.

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It isn't.

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And so for most consum, community
constituencies that might wanna have an

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issue raised in the public arena, and
those especially who are dis-empowered.

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Or who are not from the most powerful in
society,

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they don't have that kind of premade
infrastructure in place.

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And any community organizer.

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Anybody trying to do some kind of
community advocacy, has as an early

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job to education their own constituency
and build a consensus around a message.

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Here's just a couple of ideas that I can
offer.

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The first is, never underestimate one's
constituency.

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There is a tendency, especially, dare I
say it

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among lawyers, to think that we know
everything about law.

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And that lay people will just trust us to
take care of those things.

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The truth is we must be good at explaining
our issues.

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And the policy issues at stake and indeed
legal issues.

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To lay people, we must be able to empower
them to speak about it themselves.

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If we leave it to leaders.

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Whether lawyers or not, or spokespeople
whether lawyers or not.

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00:12:28,580 --> 00:12:32,350
We've essentially cut off the vast
majority of voices that

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00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:35,720
could be rallied to bring the message to
the public.

236
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,920
So it's important to not underestimate
their ability.

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00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,990
I have found that the most complex
questions of public policy.

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00:12:42,990 --> 00:12:45,880
If properly presented, can be grasped,

239
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,250
understood, processed, critically thought
about, and

240
00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:51,280
advocated for, by people with the

241
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:56,930
absolute least credentials, education,
training, and experience?

242
00:12:56,930 --> 00:12:59,610
That's part of the job of an effective
community organizer.

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00:12:59,610 --> 00:13:03,730
I've really become the most anti-elitist
in doing this kind

244
00:13:03,730 --> 00:13:07,920
of activity, and I'm constantly delighted
at how many people.

245
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,710
With the least fancy credentials, come up
with the best

246
00:13:11,710 --> 00:13:16,040
ideas, frame it in the most effective way,
and get their message across way more

247
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:22,940
effectively than the usual suspect person
frankly like like me.

248
00:13:25,660 --> 00:13:28,200
One thing to know about any constituency

249
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,020
or any community or sector of community
is.

250
00:13:31,020 --> 00:13:32,900
A, they're really busy.

251
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:35,160
B, they're typically exhausted.

252
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,590
C, whatever issue you're presenting, no
matter how important, will

253
00:13:38,590 --> 00:13:41,830
go on a plate that already has a million
issues.

254
00:13:41,830 --> 00:13:44,500
And it'll go on that plate as number
1,000,001.

255
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,330
So the key role of the community organizer
is to

256
00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:50,709
make information available in a way that's
easy to absorb.

257
00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:56,130
Now anyone who reads the updates that my
coalition sends out and that I write is

258
00:13:56,130 --> 00:13:58,110
gonna say that Lipowski is like the
biggest

259
00:13:58,110 --> 00:14:01,530
violator, because often these updates are
long and detailed.

260
00:14:02,538 --> 00:14:05,300
But there is method to our madness.

261
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:09,930
What we do when we send out an update,
whatever the issue is, the subject line in

262
00:14:09,930 --> 00:14:11,490
our email tells you enough that if you

263
00:14:11,490 --> 00:14:13,890
don't know anything more that could be
your message.

264
00:14:13,890 --> 00:14:15,720
If you open the update you'll see that
there is

265
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,090
then a headline written like a newspaper
headline, longer than the

266
00:14:19,090 --> 00:14:22,420
subject line of the e-mail and it will
also frame the

267
00:14:22,420 --> 00:14:26,920
argument in one line or two, everything
you need to know.

268
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,570
If that's all people read, if that's all

269
00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:33,370
they can convey to a journalist,
politician or otherwise.

270
00:14:33,370 --> 00:14:34,670
It's still effective.

271
00:14:34,670 --> 00:14:37,380
We then provide a summary, for those that
wanna read

272
00:14:37,380 --> 00:14:41,230
further, and then we provide longer and
more detailed resources.

273
00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:46,360
And I'm delighted with how many times how
many people read the entire

274
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,590
document, and then give us feedback on

275
00:14:48,590 --> 00:14:52,279
it, very thoughtful, creative, and
well-considered feedback.

276
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,900
Probably the biggest impediment to
community organizing.

277
00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:02,750
It's not money, cuz my coalition doesn't
raise money at all.

278
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:05,070
Or charge money for it's membership.

279
00:15:05,070 --> 00:15:08,690
The biggest impediment is, people thinking
there's nothing they can do.

280
00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:15,540
The government is a big, lumbering
organizaiton incapable of changing.

281
00:15:15,540 --> 00:15:18,740
Won't listen, they just issue news
releases.

282
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:19,960
Out of touch with the people.

283
00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:24,460
That is the biggest impediment, and
therefore.

284
00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,250
The big, one of the most important jobs

285
00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:29,220
of any community organizer is disabusing
people of

286
00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:31,640
that sense, giving them the feeling that
one,

287
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,010
or two little things they do could really
help.

288
00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:40,350
And, the designing proposals for them of
ac, for action, it's best to give

289
00:15:40,350 --> 00:15:43,970
them things that are easy to do, quick to
do, and people will immediately go.

290
00:15:43,970 --> 00:15:45,190
That, it would, pardon me, that will

291
00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:48,700
quickly disabuse them of the sense of
futility.

292
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:50,380
That there's just nothing I can do.

293
00:15:50,380 --> 00:15:53,380
If it's just a matter of call your member
of the legislature.

294
00:15:53,380 --> 00:15:55,150
Or call a phone in radio station.

295
00:15:55,150 --> 00:15:57,180
Or retweet a tweet.

296
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,480
Something that can be done within a
minute.

297
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:04,580
But that, overcome, but, both advances our
agenda, and.

298
00:16:04,580 --> 00:16:07,750
Neutralizes or reduces that pervading
sense that

299
00:16:07,750 --> 00:16:10,120
there's nothing, I could do about it.

300
00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:15,550
To enable people to do that, it's vital to
be able to let

301
00:16:15,550 --> 00:16:17,470
people, encourage people to tithe their

302
00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:20,570
own experiences to whatever the message
is.

303
00:16:20,570 --> 00:16:24,660
So, if we're advocating on accessibility,
we will say, here's the message we need

304
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:26,120
a new Disability Act or we need

305
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,490
a accessibility standard in the area of
education.

306
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:29,910
Whatever it may be.

307
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:34,710
But they will encourage you, to tell your
own story.

308
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:37,110
So for the student who's faced barriers in
the

309
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:39,400
school, or a parent who is not fit with

310
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,720
the disability who's faced barriers being
able to go

311
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,070
to their own kids' school play or whatever
it maybe.

312
00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:47,910
Give them away that immediately apply
their own experience.

313
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:49,808
Once they do that, they'll find that A.

314
00:16:49,808 --> 00:16:52,210
It's he [INAUDIBLE] just start talking
because it's

315
00:16:52,210 --> 00:16:54,770
something that bothers them and B it makes

316
00:16:54,770 --> 00:16:56,990
them feel like they are connected to the,

317
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:59,050
to the issue you are presenting because
they are.

318
00:17:00,650 --> 00:17:06,290
When we one of the tools we use, I'm going
to use this as an illustration

319
00:17:06,290 --> 00:17:11,280
for both empowering developing consensus
and creating motion, movement.

320
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,470
We, periodically, will issue what we call
an action kit.

321
00:17:15,470 --> 00:17:19,670
I believe for today's class, I provided
you one which we've got

322
00:17:19,670 --> 00:17:21,705
on the AODA Alliance website at

323
00:17:21,705 --> 00:17:25,200
aodaalliance.org under the what's new
link.

324
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,150
There's action kits all along there, you
can just

325
00:17:27,150 --> 00:17:29,565
search on the words action kit, but
Ontario has to

326
00:17:29,565 --> 00:17:33,880
by-elections on February 13th 2014, and we
put out

327
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,720
an action kit with tips on how to get
involved.

328
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,310
In the by-elections.

329
00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:43,810
So, one of the mess, underlying everything
we do is, is, with these

330
00:17:43,810 --> 00:17:49,580
actions, is something I learned really
early on in doing my community advocacy.

331
00:17:49,580 --> 00:17:54,670
If you get up in front of a very enthused
audience, get them all motivated to, on

332
00:17:54,670 --> 00:17:56,330
an issue, and then say, will you go

333
00:17:56,330 --> 00:17:59,470
home and write your member of the Ontario
legislature.

334
00:17:59,470 --> 00:18:02,290
And press them to do acts.

335
00:18:02,290 --> 00:18:06,940
You'll have a room full of people who will
happily nod and they really mean it.

336
00:18:06,940 --> 00:18:10,410
But when they get home, most of them won't
write that letter, cuz they're busy,

337
00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:14,410
they've got other stuff to do, it takes
too long, they've never done it before.

338
00:18:14,410 --> 00:18:17,309
However, what we found is if you give them
a sample letter.

339
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,670
They will go home and they will take it
and they will

340
00:18:21,670 --> 00:18:24,530
copy and paste it and they will make, and
if you encourage them

341
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:26,790
to not just send it as is, if they don't
have any time

342
00:18:26,790 --> 00:18:30,040
to send it as is, if they have more time,
change the wording.

343
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,530
Add your own experience.

344
00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:33,836
People will, you get a lot of letters.

345
00:18:33,836 --> 00:18:38,210
The exact same people, the exact same
motivation, but a lot more action.

346
00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:44,390
So think of us as the fast food of
political action, making it easier to do.

347
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:45,800
We do this through an action kit.

348
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:47,670
What's in the action kit?

349
00:18:47,670 --> 00:18:52,090
It focuses on a specific period of time, a
specific goal.

350
00:18:52,090 --> 00:18:57,990
So if it's a bi-election it's relevant
from now until February 13th, 2014.

351
00:18:57,990 --> 00:19:01,250
And if the goal is raise disability
accessibility issues in the

352
00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:04,930
by election then what you're doing is
saying here's a campaign.

353
00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:08,320
What we're asking you to do one way or
another is to get talking about this and

354
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,540
I'll tell you if you go to the media and
try to raise issues on a by election.

355
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:13,810
Its really hard to get coverage but
getting grass

356
00:19:13,810 --> 00:19:17,050
roots folks doing it yes it can be done.

357
00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:18,420
What do you do in an action kit?

358
00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:22,620
What we, what we will do is give people a
really quick synthesis of what

359
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:27,130
the issues are and, to the extent we know
it, the position of the parties.

360
00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:31,510
And we try to boil that down to as brief
an entry as

361
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:36,780
possible, and then provide links for those
who wanna read more about these subjects.

362
00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:39,910
And then what we do is, we will offer
people two things.

363
00:19:39,910 --> 00:19:42,140
First, a list of questions they might ask
at

364
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:46,340
a politicians or that they can raise with
voters.

365
00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:49,220
And then second, a list of actions that
they can take.

366
00:19:50,650 --> 00:19:52,240
Those actions could include going into an

367
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,840
all candidates debate, calling candidates
from different parties.

368
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,030
Even if someone just comes to your door
canvasing raise these issues.

369
00:19:59,030 --> 00:20:01,760
Raise it with friends and families who
might wanna vote.

370
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,350
Fax or email this to your local media and
get them to raise it.

371
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:07,400
Call a Colin Show.

372
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,100
What we've found through these action kits
is it's amazing how, delightful how

373
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,679
many people actually use these tips and
who come up with other ideas.

374
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:18,910
But it's got to fit in a few pages and
it's got to be easy to read with

375
00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:23,020
headings that get people right into the
mid of why we are doing it and what to do.

376
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:27,438
This is sort of what, this is one sample
you can use it,

377
00:20:27,438 --> 00:20:29,294
not just during a bi-election but for

378
00:20:29,294 --> 00:20:31,618
many, many, many other kinds of
activities.

379
00:20:38,122 --> 00:20:42,346
I remember one day I was speaking at a an
event years ago in London, and a man

380
00:20:42,346 --> 00:20:44,842
I had never met before named Michael Lewis
came

381
00:20:44,842 --> 00:20:47,180
up to me, and he said, I'm a folk singer.

382
00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:50,530
He's totally blind, and he said, can I
write a song for you guys?

383
00:20:50,530 --> 00:20:52,300
Can you, like go for it.

384
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:53,370
Never thought of it before.

385
00:20:53,370 --> 00:20:55,430
Wrote a song called Still Waiting.

386
00:20:55,430 --> 00:21:02,060
It was fabulous, it a community group in
London produced a video that went with it.

387
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:04,860
Depicting different barriers facing
different people with disabilities.

388
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:06,940
It became our anthem for years.

389
00:21:06,940 --> 00:21:09,410
Sadly Michael died the year that the
disabilities

390
00:21:09,410 --> 00:21:11,740
act was about to be developed and enacted.

391
00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:14,080
A conference in working on it's develop,

392
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,810
the development of legislation was named
after him.

393
00:21:16,810 --> 00:21:19,630
And the theme still waiting still
resonates.

394
00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:22,910
Just one person who took one of his life
skills, song

395
00:21:22,910 --> 00:21:26,700
writing, and folk singing, and put it into
action a way that.

396
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:28,160
None of us had thought of.

397
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,680
Tons of examples like that just abound.

398
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:36,800
Let me talk to you a little bit about
developing consensuses.

399
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,970
It is impossible to united an entire
community on anything.

400
00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:43,910
So to try to seek unanimity is futile.

401
00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:48,570
My belief is to aim, or my goal is to aim
for harmony not unanimity.

402
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:49,900
There will be descension.

403
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:54,010
There are a couple of strategies for
dealing with it.

404
00:21:54,010 --> 00:21:58,150
Here are some of them, first it is
important to frame your

405
00:21:58,150 --> 00:22:02,810
platform in a term that has as few people
disagree with as possible.

406
00:22:02,810 --> 00:22:04,420
Barrier free society.

407
00:22:04,420 --> 00:22:06,460
How many people with disabilities are
going to

408
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:09,930
get up and say we don't face barriers?

409
00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:10,880
People chuckled.

410
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,240
How many of you think they're being
removed quickly enough?

411
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,200
People chuckled again.

412
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,090
Do you think we should do more about it?

413
00:22:17,090 --> 00:22:18,510
And do you think it should be mandatory?

414
00:22:18,510 --> 00:22:21,280
All of a sudden, these are all questions
that, that unite people.

415
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,670
But there will be people who disagree.

416
00:22:23,670 --> 00:22:27,760
Whatever it is we propose, there will be
people who say, you need more.

417
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:28,789
You should ask for more.

418
00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:34,180
It's important to make requests that are
realistic, that won't draw the

419
00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:36,290
the fire of government or other

420
00:22:36,290 --> 00:22:39,840
communities that'll say that's just not
doable.

421
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,430
Or that they can't credibly say that.

422
00:22:42,430 --> 00:22:46,350
but, what it can be helpful are dissenters

423
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:49,810
within your community who think that
you're reasonable proposals.

424
00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:54,540
While ambitious and helpful, aren't good
or strong enough.

425
00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:55,590
That helps.

426
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:58,040
You might thing, oh my god, there's
division in the community.

427
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,790
People will think that we don't have the
wind at our backs.

428
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:02,500
This will be terrible.

429
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:05,830
What we've learned is that they're time
that really helps.

430
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:08,220
I will first, my coalition will.

431
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:10,390
Always encourage those who think what
we're asking

432
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:12,470
for is not good enough, we'll say, you

433
00:23:12,470 --> 00:23:16,500
know what, we don't say, shh, don't dare
say that, we have to all stick together.

434
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,180
We say, you know what?

435
00:23:17,180 --> 00:23:18,100
Go for it.

436
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:24,480
Tell the government, tell the media and
make your point.

437
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,200
And we like more people to be heard from,

438
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,460
and we don't claim that we speak for
everyone.

439
00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:32,130
And then when you claim you speak for
everyone, it allows a

440
00:23:32,130 --> 00:23:37,020
single dissenter to blast that claim and
to draw all the attention.

441
00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:39,390
The beauty though in addition of having a

442
00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:42,040
dissenting group who say you chose for me
is

443
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,620
it let's you go to the government or the
media or whoever and say you know what.

444
00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:48,090
We're making request that we look for re,
that look reasonable.

445
00:23:48,090 --> 00:23:50,240
We think that they're important and we
should get them.

446
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,600
But let's be clear, there are people out
there who think we deserve more.

447
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,320
And they're out there pressuring too.

448
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,610
What that does is it make it looks like
you're coming up the middle.

449
00:23:59,610 --> 00:24:01,540
And puts pressure on the government at
least to go as far

450
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:04,749
as you want, because thankfully there are
people out there demanding more.

451
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:07,190
And I'd do this cynically.

452
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:09,170
I'd do it quite openly.

453
00:24:09,170 --> 00:24:12,810
And so rather than viewing people disagree
with you and want more as

454
00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:17,434
being people who are at cross purposes,
they can actually really help your cause.

455
00:24:21,893 --> 00:24:26,580
How do you maintain momentum over a
multi-year campaign?

456
00:24:26,580 --> 00:24:28,070
This is a huge challenge.

457
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:30,730
We started our campaign for the disability
act in 1994.

458
00:24:30,730 --> 00:24:35,230
And we didn't ultimately win our
disability act till 2005.

459
00:24:35,230 --> 00:24:39,390
And it's very easy for people to give up.

460
00:24:39,390 --> 00:24:41,230
How do you maintain momentum?

461
00:24:41,230 --> 00:24:43,910
Again, just a few ideas, we have lots
more.

462
00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:50,550
It's important to define the time into
chunks with

463
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:54,670
limited goals for an immediate two or
three-month period.

464
00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:59,320
If all we think about is will we win our
law, people will feel frustrated.

465
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,030
When you get in the car to drive from
Toronto

466
00:25:01,030 --> 00:25:03,360
to Florida and you got kids in the back
seat.

467
00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:06,010
What's the first thing they ask as you
pull out of the driveway?

468
00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:08,510
Are we then yet, are we there yet?

469
00:25:08,510 --> 00:25:11,430
There are two possible answers to the kid
who says, are we there yet?

470
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:14,320
One is, no we got 48 hours of straight
driving.

471
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,130
Most of it's boring.

472
00:25:15,130 --> 00:25:16,550
The radio sucks.

473
00:25:16,550 --> 00:25:19,440
And bear with it.

474
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,840
You know, deal with it.

475
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,080
Or you could say, guess what?

476
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:22,730
We're in Toronto.

477
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:24,630
We're only an hour and a half from Niagara
Falls.

478
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:26,650
It's one of the wonders of the world.

479
00:25:26,650 --> 00:25:28,160
Guess what, we'll be there soon.

480
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,460
And celebrate that milestone.

481
00:25:30,460 --> 00:25:34,440
And, in a sense I'm not equating our
community to kids whining in the back of

482
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,820
the car whatsoever but I wanna say that

483
00:25:36,820 --> 00:25:39,440
it's important to give people a shorter
range goal.

484
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,440
It may just be a fight in a by-election or
it

485
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,520
may be a campaign for a particular change
that let's people.

486
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,580
Focus on it, feel a sense of immediate
goal,

487
00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:56,550
and then succeed, if possible, and then
celebrate your victories.

488
00:25:56,550 --> 00:26:01,700
And then, as those accumulate, one is in a
position to say, look at all of what we've

489
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,350
done over the past two or three years,
look

490
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:04,910
at the goals we've set and look what we've
got.

491
00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:07,220
That in turn brings more people on board

492
00:26:07,220 --> 00:26:10,140
in your activity, cause people will see
success.

493
00:26:10,140 --> 00:26:11,910
It'll be no matter what community you're
organizing it's going

494
00:26:11,910 --> 00:26:14,640
to be small because won't know if you're
going anywhere.

495
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:24,170
And it, it, it, just it, it, it, compounds
the more milestones along the way you hit.

496
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:30,210
Now let me turn to dealing with the
political world.

497
00:26:30,210 --> 00:26:32,760
First, how do you deal with political
parties?

498
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,150
My view is one must be non-partisan, one
must be non-partisan.

499
00:26:38,150 --> 00:26:41,090
One will have the least credibility if
you're seen as

500
00:26:41,090 --> 00:26:45,160
in one party's camp always for them or
always against them.

501
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,460
You've got to be clear that you're
prepared to work

502
00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:50,900
with any political party that's prepared
to pursue your agenda.

503
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,730
My coalition always says we're
non-partisan.

504
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:56,130
We don't support or oppose any party.

505
00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:58,400
We're just working with a particular
agenda.

506
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,440
That means that we will be critical if a
party is bad on our

507
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,650
agenda, but we'll be complimentary if
they're

508
00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:05,280
good on our agenda, whoever they are.

509
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,530
And that may personally mean that the
people within the coalition

510
00:27:08,530 --> 00:27:11,540
who may be strongly linked to one party,
but have to thank.

511
00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:12,150
Another party.

512
00:27:13,325 --> 00:27:18,000
Non-partisanship also helps people join,
inspire people, to join your movement.

513
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,310
Because if people think you're just a
liberal or you're just a conservative or

514
00:27:21,310 --> 00:27:25,210
you're just NDP, and they're not, they're
not gonna want to get anywhere near you.

515
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:28,129
And that weakens your effectiveness.

516
00:27:30,030 --> 00:27:32,350
One of the things that I use as a rule of
thumb.

517
00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:34,490
And my coalition uses as a rule of thumb.

518
00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:36,280
When we're dealing with any political
party is

519
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,330
that our dealings with that party are
confidential.

520
00:27:39,330 --> 00:27:41,410
As between us and that party.

521
00:27:41,410 --> 00:27:44,920
What they end up committing to us, is
public and in writing.

522
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,860
What we ask of all the parties, is public
and in writing.

523
00:27:47,860 --> 00:27:50,430
But any back and forth that goes on
between political

524
00:27:50,430 --> 00:27:53,860
parties I won't tell the NDP what the
Tories have

525
00:27:53,860 --> 00:27:55,870
told us, and I won't tell the Tories what
the

526
00:27:55,870 --> 00:27:58,190
NDP have told us, and the same with the
Liberals.

527
00:27:58,190 --> 00:28:00,160
It's important that they might want to
find out

528
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,710
from you what's going on in other camps,
but it's

529
00:28:02,710 --> 00:28:04,840
important for each party to know that if
they talk

530
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,060
to you, it's not gonna leak back to other
parties.

531
00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:11,150
Anythings that's gonna come up will all do
be in the public arena.

532
00:28:11,150 --> 00:28:14,790
When you're dealing with each party, its
important to think of a couple of things.

533
00:28:14,790 --> 00:28:17,700
First, each has their own particular
language.

534
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:21,780
I'm talking about accessibility to
conservatives, I will talk about

535
00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:24,370
the fairness part of it, but I'll also
talk about the,

536
00:28:24,370 --> 00:28:28,260
the business case for accessibility
because and, and our strategy

537
00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:30,980
is to accommodate the needs of small
business and so on.

538
00:28:30,980 --> 00:28:32,740
Now we'll talk about that would.

539
00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:36,050
And NDP too, but obviously Conservatives
given their agenda, need

540
00:28:36,050 --> 00:28:39,460
to see it through the lens of their
political agenda.

541
00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:44,340
Similarly I, I will focus, shift, we will
focus our, our, our, our

542
00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:48,770
message or our emphasis with each of the
political parties in that way.

543
00:28:48,770 --> 00:28:52,380
Now they're also gonna wanna know about
the focus that relates to each other.

544
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:54,250
The NDP, if they're running.

545
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:56,210
Don't want to be seen as anti-business.

546
00:28:56,210 --> 00:28:57,940
They want to because otherwise they think

547
00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:01,370
they're going to be cutting off themselves
electorally.

548
00:29:01,370 --> 00:29:06,150
So, they want to know how your strategy
accomdates the needs of

549
00:29:06,150 --> 00:29:11,380
small business frankly even as much as the
conservatives or the liberals might.

550
00:29:11,380 --> 00:29:16,120
So, while it's the same message in some
ways there are ways that you tune it.

551
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,690
But accommodate the platforms of each
party and try to respond to it.

552
00:29:20,690 --> 00:29:23,890
That is not pandering, it's dealing with
the reality that you've got

553
00:29:23,890 --> 00:29:27,090
to speak the language of the people that
you're trying to persuade.

554
00:29:27,090 --> 00:29:29,750
And they expect it, they don't expect
anything different.

555
00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:35,120
When you're dealing with any political
party, it's really

556
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,020
important to find out who's actually
making the platform decisions.

557
00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:40,590
That's not always readily apparent.

558
00:29:40,590 --> 00:29:42,320
In fact, one thing I will tell I've
learned in

559
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,260
all my community advocacy is that whether
it's government or opposition.

560
00:29:46,260 --> 00:29:48,610
The first time you approach them the
person they send you to

561
00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:52,330
deal with is their upfront person not
necessarily the real decision maker.

562
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:53,970
It takes a certain amount of time to try

563
00:29:53,970 --> 00:29:56,370
and figure out who the real decision maker
is.

564
00:29:56,370 --> 00:29:58,590
Many of our strategies are
counter-intuitive.

565
00:29:58,590 --> 00:30:01,170
I'm going to give you one that is huge in
that regard.

566
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:05,860
We are quite happy in my collocation if we
get election commitments

567
00:30:05,860 --> 00:30:10,060
from a party, that are not set out in the
main platform document.

568
00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:12,470
Instead they're set up in a separate
letter to us.

569
00:30:12,470 --> 00:30:17,050
Now the intuitive response to that kind of
strategy is that's nuts.

570
00:30:17,050 --> 00:30:20,830
Because wouldn't you rather it be in the
mainstream of their agenda.

571
00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:23,620
A either perform a platform, not an
assigned

572
00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:27,720
document, that many people might not even
see.

573
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,380
Well, that maybe intuitively sensible, but
it's wrong.

574
00:30:31,380 --> 00:30:31,720
Why?

575
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,690
A commitment on the Disabilities Act, to
pass a Disabilities Act, if it

576
00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:39,979
was in the party's mainstream platform,
might only be one or two sentences.

577
00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:42,680
It won't have any detail.

578
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,660
When we got commitments from the liberals
and the

579
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:49,820
new Democrats for the 1999 and 2003
elections, their

580
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:52,580
commitments were in a letters to our
coalition that

581
00:30:52,580 --> 00:30:57,720
are up on our old coalitions website,
ontarians odacommittee.net.

582
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,360
And they're quite detailed, way more
detailed than

583
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,360
we could have ever gotten in a mainstream
platform.

584
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,400
So is it not in the mainstream platform.

585
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,770
And does that signal that maybe that's
important.

586
00:31:07,770 --> 00:31:09,180
Some might see it that way.

587
00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:11,630
But after elections over, when you're
actually

588
00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:14,220
trying to get them to keep their
commitments.

589
00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,510
No body's gonna get up in a government and
say, well I

590
00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:20,060
know we made that commitment in a letter
to you during election.

591
00:31:20,060 --> 00:31:21,790
But it wasn't in the main platform that
was documented.

592
00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:25,460
It was in a separate letter instead that
you put over the internet.

593
00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:27,040
There's not gonna do that.

594
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,000
So, sometimes the counter intuitive really
helps.

595
00:31:33,950 --> 00:31:37,950
Let me talk to you now about appealing to
politicians.

596
00:31:37,950 --> 00:31:42,680
And I, we, people get all cynical and oh,
they're just out for themselves and so on.

597
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,460
There are some really thoughtful and
important

598
00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:48,510
strategies and ideas that we've learned
over time.

599
00:31:48,510 --> 00:31:49,690
First I want to talk to you about dealing

600
00:31:49,690 --> 00:31:52,890
with a politician who is not a cabinet
minister.

601
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:56,180
Its important to know some basic things
about about politicians

602
00:31:56,180 --> 00:31:59,230
so first is contrary to the public
cynicism about them.

603
00:31:59,230 --> 00:32:01,800
They are in my experience without
exception

604
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,750
hard working deeply dedicated to public
service.

605
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:13,520
And very much interested in advancing the
public good.

606
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,830
They may have a very different view of the
public good then

607
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:20,500
you have or your community has or a lot of
people have.

608
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:22,620
And you might think that what they think
is

609
00:32:22,620 --> 00:32:25,280
public interest is not the public interest
at all.

610
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:30,520
But the genuinely believe that their That

611
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,710
what they're doing is in the public
interest.

612
00:32:32,710 --> 00:32:36,950
I think a lot of the cynicism about them
in that regard is unfair.

613
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:41,690
They were, incredibly long hours, days,
nights, weekends

614
00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:44,360
and wherever they go they're sort of on
call.

615
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,190
So whenever you, and any politician of any
political stripe.

616
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:51,500
Is, in my experience, torn between wanting
to do

617
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:53,650
what they think is the good, the right
thing,

618
00:32:53,650 --> 00:32:54,970
and on the other hand, having to face the

619
00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:57,500
reality that they're but one member of a
party.

620
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,070
They've got electoral issues to deal with,
they got campaign, and

621
00:33:00,070 --> 00:33:03,160
they also got interpersonal issues to deal
with within their party.

622
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,130
And they're really busy.

623
00:33:05,130 --> 00:33:09,060
So, whenever you sit down with any
politician, you'd

624
00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:11,160
better be ready for the fact that they've
got.

625
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,540
Something right before you, something
right after

626
00:33:13,540 --> 00:33:16,030
you, probably calls while you are there.

627
00:33:16,030 --> 00:33:19,100
You gotta be ready to accommodate some of
them who is that busy.

628
00:33:20,170 --> 00:33:22,130
And ever distracted.

629
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:24,080
So what do you do?

630
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,900
The first thing is, try to figure out

631
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:28,820
ways that they would naturally attach to
your issue.

632
00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:33,270
If it's disability advocacy, there's three
things that can come to play.

633
00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:35,410
The first is, they may have a disability,
or a

634
00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:37,960
family member with a disability, or a
close friend with a

635
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,860
disability, or a staff member with a
disability, or a staff

636
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,080
member who has got a family or friend with
a disability.

637
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,780
In fact, any politician who doesn't have
one of those things, I don't think exists.

638
00:33:49,810 --> 00:33:54,430
And so there's a natural attraction to our
issue just by virtue of that.

639
00:33:54,430 --> 00:33:56,180
The second is they get calls from

640
00:33:56,180 --> 00:34:00,850
constituencies, constituent members,
voters and their constituencies.

641
00:34:00,850 --> 00:34:05,920
Who will be raising issues about their
needs as people with disabilities so even

642
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,060
if they have not been pickled in these
issues before they went into public life.

643
00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:10,540
Believe me they've heard a lot about them.

644
00:34:11,770 --> 00:34:14,600
And third, they will have an intere-,
[INAUDIBLE]

645
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,430
you can at least generate an interest in

646
00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:19,110
your issue, either by their sense of
justice

647
00:34:19,110 --> 00:34:21,660
or by tying it to their, their political
agenda.

648
00:34:21,660 --> 00:34:23,640
Or simply because they're trying to move
up in their party, and

649
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,850
this might be a a ball that they'd like to
run with.

650
00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:37,300
You should be able to work, with them on
one, or by activating one, both, or

651
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:42,440
all three of, those kind of considerations
that are going on with them.

652
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,430
What can a back bencher do for you?

653
00:34:45,810 --> 00:34:47,080
Well, there's a number of things they can
do.

654
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,640
They, if, depending, opposition, or even
in government.

655
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,800
They can lobby informally within their
caucus to get support for

656
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,510
you, or even to approach the governing
party, if they're in opposition.

657
00:34:56,510 --> 00:34:59,050
They can ask questions in question period.

658
00:34:59,050 --> 00:35:02,070
They can help you negotiate the platform
of their party,

659
00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:06,410
or build, find natural other allies within
their, within their caucus.

660
00:35:08,090 --> 00:35:11,840
They can bring in a private members bill
or a resolution for the

661
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,657
legislature to vote on depending how far
they want to go with it.

662
00:35:16,657 --> 00:35:18,780
And even further as one illustration.

663
00:35:18,780 --> 00:35:21,410
We had one member of the liberals when

664
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:25,720
in opposition in Ontario In the year 2000
actually

665
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:30,510
hold shadow public consultations around
Ontario hearing from people

666
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:33,490
with disabilities which helped us build a
community support.

667
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,750
Now let me turn and talk to you about
meeting a cabinet minister.

668
00:35:39,230 --> 00:35:42,190
This is an interesting and different,
everything I've just told you comes

669
00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:44,920
into play, but there's a bunch of other
things that come into play.

670
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,230
As well first it, it's it's my experience
and our experience that if you're

671
00:35:49,230 --> 00:35:51,900
gonna wanna work with and meet with

672
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:54,740
somebody that high up, you don't start
there.

673
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:01,530
It's usually best to start at the lowest
level of the organizational hierarchy.

674
00:36:01,530 --> 00:36:03,550
Meet with them, raise your issues, though

675
00:36:03,550 --> 00:36:05,550
that person may have absolutely no
authority to

676
00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:07,470
do anything other than listen, and give
you

677
00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:10,080
a little background, but you gotta start
there.

678
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,370
And then you work your way up to their
director, and then you work your way up to

679
00:36:13,370 --> 00:36:15,870
their assistant deputy minister, and then
at times, you

680
00:36:15,870 --> 00:36:18,190
may work your way up to the deputy
minister.

681
00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:20,440
And only after all of that going to the
minister.

682
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,690
No, no, we don't always do this, but often
we do this.

683
00:36:23,690 --> 00:36:24,810
Why do you go through that?

684
00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:28,360
Number one, on your way up, you will learn
tones.

685
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,110
Not just about the formal government
structure, but about who's really calling

686
00:36:32,110 --> 00:36:35,100
the shots, because at some point on the
way up, you will find.

687
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:36,500
A natural ally.

688
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:39,460
Somebody who cares about your issues or
has been involved in it, either

689
00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:43,280
because they have a personal investment,
or because it just, it makes policy sense.

690
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,790
And they may just along the way share some
good ideas with you.

691
00:36:45,790 --> 00:36:49,660
They're not being irresponsible or
disloyal to the government in doing that.

692
00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:52,910
They're being good public servants by
helping and educate.

693
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:55,210
A community member on how to, how to

694
00:36:55,210 --> 00:36:58,040
work their way through a complex
government regime.

695
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:03,970
There's a second reason for going up the
food chain, or hierarchy this way.

696
00:37:03,970 --> 00:37:06,380
If you go too high, too fast.

697
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,640
You're giving that person an out, by
sending you back to the

698
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,130
bottom, you go to a deputy minister first
and you make your pitch.

699
00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:15,910
That deputy minister might say, listen
this is all

700
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:18,650
very interesting I've never really heard
about this before,

701
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:20,200
have you talked to, this about this, with
the

702
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,810
policy people or the operational people in
my ministry.

703
00:37:22,810 --> 00:37:24,570
You'll say no and he'll smile and say well

704
00:37:24,570 --> 00:37:26,649
thanks for coming in I think that's your
next step.

705
00:37:27,690 --> 00:37:29,180
On the other hand, if you've worked your
way up

706
00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:31,720
the, up the ladder, then when you sit down
with an

707
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,400
assistant deputy or deputy minister,
you're in a position to say

708
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,890
look, I'm coming to you after I've taken
the following steps.

709
00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:42,990
It also and so, at that point, when you
get to that

710
00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:47,090
higher level individual They can't just
sluff you off on someone below.

711
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:48,760
And I don't mean they would do that
cynically.

712
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,430
I mean they just may reassign it to where
it should be considered first.

713
00:37:52,430 --> 00:37:54,238
Rather you're in a position to say okay

714
00:37:54,238 --> 00:37:57,700
Ms. Deputy Minister or Mr. Assistant
Deputy Minister.

715
00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:59,760
I've gone up these steps.

716
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,240
Here's what we've learned so far, and here
are the core issues.

717
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:04,780
And then of course, by the time you get to

718
00:38:04,780 --> 00:38:09,510
a minister you can narrow the issues that
need ministerial attention.

719
00:38:09,510 --> 00:38:12,620
If you get time with a minister, that is
really scarce time.

720
00:38:12,620 --> 00:38:14,200
You want to use it to an advantage.

721
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,900
You don't want to use it resolving things
that

722
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:18,760
could have been resolved way further down
the ladder.

723
00:38:20,540 --> 00:38:23,410
So, you've gone all your way up the, up
the ladder,

724
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:25,450
you get a meeting with a minister, what do
you do?

725
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,120
Few things, number one.

726
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,260
You gotta set your goals.

727
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:30,680
What do I want the minister to do?

728
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,880
You can't just go in saying here's a
problem.

729
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,270
You want to be able to go in and say
here's a problem, here's what

730
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:38,660
we done about it, here's why it matters,
here's what we're asking you to do.

731
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:41,020
And by the way you may get only half an
hour

732
00:38:41,020 --> 00:38:45,290
with him like a lawyer in a court case
with time limits.

733
00:38:45,290 --> 00:38:46,440
Use your time wisely.

734
00:38:47,470 --> 00:38:50,320
And frankly don't mess around a whole lot,
waste a whole lot of time

735
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,270
with howdy doody, nice to meet you,

736
00:38:52,270 --> 00:38:55,720
isn't it raining outside doesn't the
weather terrible.

737
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,220
Get on with the time, don't let it get
figured away

738
00:38:58,220 --> 00:39:00,590
or you'll suddenly find out it's gone,
they've got their next meeting.

739
00:39:03,430 --> 00:39:07,570
In order to have the meeting be effective
it's our experience.

740
00:39:07,570 --> 00:39:10,770
That it is very wise to first, get

741
00:39:10,770 --> 00:39:13,160
in touch with one of the minister's
political staff.

742
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,410
In their office there will be political
staff and I will brief,

743
00:39:17,410 --> 00:39:19,980
the political staffer on everything we're
going to raise in the meeting.

744
00:39:19,980 --> 00:39:22,350
I will also brief people further down the
hierarchy

745
00:39:22,350 --> 00:39:24,080
about what's going to be raised at the
meeting.

746
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,490
And I'll do that for a couple of reasons.

747
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:28,700
Number one, I want the minister in a
position to not be surprised.

748
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:32,890
This isn't like a surprise cross
examination where you think you've got a

749
00:39:32,890 --> 00:39:36,040
brilliant knock out punch and you don't
want a witness to be prepared.

750
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,810
You want them to have had a chance to
think

751
00:39:37,810 --> 00:39:41,910
through this because you're trying to
direct them towards a solution.

752
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:44,340
But also if you say, minister as a result
of

753
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:46,020
this meeting I'd like to ask if you'll do
X

754
00:39:46,020 --> 00:39:48,030
you don't want the minister to say, well
that's an

755
00:39:48,030 --> 00:39:51,470
interesting idea but I've never turned my
mind to that before.

756
00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:52,650
You'd rather be in a position of looking

757
00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:54,160
at the minister and saying, we're asking
you

758
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,180
to do X, as I've briefed your deputy

759
00:39:56,180 --> 00:39:59,850
and your, your policy adviser, than I'd be
raising.

760
00:39:59,850 --> 00:40:03,820
So they, all of a sudden, you cut the legs
out from underneath any capacity to say

761
00:40:05,110 --> 00:40:07,280
oh, shucks, I never heard about this
before, can

762
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:08,509
you give me some time to work on it?

763
00:40:09,534 --> 00:40:12,108
as, as a way to, to of the minister to

764
00:40:12,108 --> 00:40:15,753
not confront and deal with what you're,
what you're raising.

765
00:40:20,941 --> 00:40:26,860
There are times we excuse me that the.

766
00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:31,610
It's usually worthwhile to not only brief
the staffer

767
00:40:31,610 --> 00:40:34,290
but at the meeting offer an action list
for follow-up.

768
00:40:34,290 --> 00:40:36,480
Here are the specific things we're asking
you to do.

769
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,140
And you may follow-up with a letter to
confirm that.

770
00:40:39,140 --> 00:40:42,540
But it's also worthwhile to ask a specific
next steps.

771
00:40:42,540 --> 00:40:43,950
When can we meet again?

772
00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:45,840
Who in your office should I follow up
with?

773
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:47,420
Cuz I can tell you the minister's going

774
00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:50,200
to leave your meeting, rush off to another
meeting.

775
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,470
And you wanna help them actually formulate
their, follow-up action

776
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:57,690
memo within their office by essentially
giving it to them.

777
00:40:57,690 --> 00:41:00,890
You can't say, Now Minister, here's the
memo to send your staff, but you

778
00:41:00,890 --> 00:41:02,990
can't give them the content, which
essentially

779
00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:04,789
does their work for them in that regard.

780
00:41:12,321 --> 00:41:13,295
Now, let me.

781
00:41:13,295 --> 00:41:16,810
[SOUND] Let me shift to a whole other
arena.

782
00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:23,670
Beyond formal meetings with members of the
legislature cabinet ministers and staff.

783
00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:27,950
There are times when the government will
hold a public consultation.

784
00:41:27,950 --> 00:41:30,990
It's important to harvest those, to your
best advantage.

785
00:41:32,660 --> 00:41:35,720
Often a lot of the heavy negotiating,

786
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:39,150
or persuasion doesn't take place at those
events.

787
00:41:39,150 --> 00:41:42,450
It may take place in informal meetings and
conversations.

788
00:41:42,450 --> 00:41:46,570
But nevertheless, public consultations on
any issue, whether it's public hearings

789
00:41:46,570 --> 00:41:50,940
on a bill or a policy consultation,
whatever it may be.

790
00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:54,670
They provide a phenomenal opportunity to
accomplish a lot.

791
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,910
In order to do that, first thing you gotta
do is

792
00:41:57,910 --> 00:42:00,680
say, what do I want to get out of this
consultation.

793
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,220
Well there's the obvious, I gotta convince
the government

794
00:42:03,220 --> 00:42:07,240
to do a particular policy, implement a
particular policy.

795
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,880
But there are other benefits to a public
consultation as well.

796
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,770
Let me suggest some.

797
00:42:12,770 --> 00:42:15,800
One is, they provide a fantastic
opportunity

798
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,560
to energize and mobilize your own
community.

799
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,780
Your own community may not be involved in
going week after week to meetings.

800
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:28,490
With cabinet ministers it's hard to get
those meetings.

801
00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:32,250
But, if a public consultation is provided
this sets

802
00:42:32,250 --> 00:42:34,570
the table, it opens the door, it provides
a

803
00:42:34,570 --> 00:42:36,310
platform, where you can turn to your
community and

804
00:42:36,310 --> 00:42:40,090
say, hey folks, here's an opportunity to
have your say.

805
00:42:40,090 --> 00:42:42,640
We'd love you to all get involved.

806
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640
And that kind of mobilizing.

807
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,190
Has benefits beyond just persuading the
government.

808
00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:52,640
Obviously the more people that come
forward and pitch on your issue.

809
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,760
The more persuasive the more chance you've
got of convincing

810
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,320
the government to do whatever it is you
wanna do.

811
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,930
But on the other hand.

812
00:42:59,930 --> 00:43:01,120
That's not all.

813
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,110
The more people come forward, the more
people you're mobilizing.

814
00:43:04,110 --> 00:43:07,140
The more people who initially thought,
there's no

815
00:43:07,140 --> 00:43:08,800
way I can have any impact on the

816
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,570
government, it's intransigent, it's a big
bureaucracy, they

817
00:43:11,570 --> 00:43:15,820
never listen to us, and so, why bother?

818
00:43:15,820 --> 00:43:17,100
The more of those folks, and, by the

819
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:19,790
way, I completely understand why people
think that way.

820
00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:21,210
I don't look.

821
00:43:21,210 --> 00:43:24,130
Negatively on them but as a community
organizer, right now, I

822
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:27,258
gotta work to counteract, and we've gotta
work to counteract that attitude.

823
00:43:27,258 --> 00:43:31,460
But [INAUDIBLE] but, the more people
actually come to a public

824
00:43:31,460 --> 00:43:35,410
forum and get a chance or public
consultation and state their piece.

825
00:43:35,410 --> 00:43:39,200
That's the more, the more people who've
overcome some of that that

826
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,980
impediment to action, people who'd be
ready to take the next step.

827
00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:45,680
To go home and pick up the phone and call
a call

828
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:49,180
in radio station and repeat what they just
said at the public consultation.

829
00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:50,830
We'll write a letter to the editor.

830
00:43:50,830 --> 00:43:52,690
We'll talk to their friends, go to their

831
00:43:52,690 --> 00:43:55,960
kids school, raise these issues and spread
the word.

832
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,850
Public consultation also provides a

833
00:43:59,850 --> 00:44:01,950
phenomenal avenue for getting media
attention.

834
00:44:01,950 --> 00:44:04,270
We're going to talk more about the media
in a couple of minutes.

835
00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:07,730
But it's im, it I wanna emphasize, just
because you think

836
00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:10,780
it's a public issue, that's important,
doesn't mean the media does.

837
00:44:11,890 --> 00:44:15,460
And if you just go to the media and say
there is inaccessible public

838
00:44:15,460 --> 00:44:17,950
transit in Ontario facing people with
disabilities,

839
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:19,120
you know, they're not gonna cover that.

840
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,330
If you say, there's public forum tomorrow

841
00:44:21,330 --> 00:44:24,470
night on barriers people with disabilities
facing transportation.

842
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:27,310
Come and hear their specific pro,
individual stories.

843
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:29,990
That, that's an event.

844
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:31,430
Media doesn't cover issues.

845
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:36,190
The media covers events and a consultation
can be catapulted into an event.

846
00:44:36,190 --> 00:44:40,970
How do you best facilitate your community
taking part in consultations?

847
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:44,130
Again, remember the aim is harmony.

848
00:44:44,130 --> 00:44:45,130
Not unanimity.

849
00:44:45,130 --> 00:44:47,060
So the goal is not making sure the only
people who

850
00:44:47,060 --> 00:44:51,250
come forward sing from our song sheet or
something like that.

851
00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:55,360
It's important to first educate your
community through action kits or tips.

852
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,720
About what the consultation is, how to
take part.

853
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:02,700
Give them the e-mail address so they can
send in a request and so on.

854
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:06,090
In the disability arena it's really
important to emphasize the government

855
00:45:06,090 --> 00:45:10,832
early on, that the consultation should be
open, not mere invitation only.

856
00:45:10,832 --> 00:45:13,390
It should be fully accessible with sign
language.

857
00:45:13,390 --> 00:45:17,840
An accessible building captioning, and so
on.

858
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,850
Often government doesn't know to do all
that.

859
00:45:19,850 --> 00:45:22,660
You've got to work with government to make
sure they do.

860
00:45:22,660 --> 00:45:26,660
Once again what's important about the deaf
community, if they don't see an

861
00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:28,650
announcement that sign language is
available, they

862
00:45:28,650 --> 00:45:30,770
may, some may assume it's not available.

863
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:34,160
So make sure its in the ad and then more
of them will turn out.

864
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,820
Understandably.

865
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:38,510
Understandably, why bother going unless
you know

866
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:39,890
for sure you gonna have sign language.

867
00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:48,280
The next important thing that we've found
that is helpful is we try to get a brief

868
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:54,500
or a position paper out to our community
before the consultation begins.

869
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,570
At least a draft.

870
00:45:56,570 --> 00:46:00,750
Not because we want everybody to sing from
our, our our hymn book.

871
00:46:00,750 --> 00:46:03,500
But to get people thinking of ideas.

872
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:06,250
And if people come forward and they use
our ideas, that's great.

873
00:46:06,250 --> 00:46:08,520
If they don't attribute it to us, we don't
care, we

874
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,660
don't claim copyright, the more people
that use it the better.

875
00:46:11,660 --> 00:46:14,800
But also, it can help get people thinking
about their own

876
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,770
ideas which may be different from ours,
may even contradict ours.

877
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:22,760
But, it's easier for them to do that by
reading, our proposals.

878
00:46:25,338 --> 00:46:28,432
So, getting it out there to give people a

879
00:46:28,432 --> 00:46:32,110
resource to make use of is is very
helpful.

880
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:35,840
Let me then, leap from that to talk to you
just for

881
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,440
two, two or three minutes about writing a
brief like that [SOUND].

882
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,720
You'll see lots of these up on our
website.

883
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:43,920
In another lecture I talk more about this,
but it's our

884
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,940
strategy to put out a draft brief first to
get peoples' ideas.

885
00:46:47,940 --> 00:46:49,390
Even though that means showing the
government

886
00:46:49,390 --> 00:46:51,820
a draft of our position even before we

887
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:54,370
finalize it and even before we know we
know we're gonna say any of it.

888
00:46:55,394 --> 00:46:57,440
The advantage of that is it gets input

889
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,410
from our community and helps educate our
community.

890
00:47:00,410 --> 00:47:02,660
And if the timelines for consultations.

891
00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:03,940
Our tide.

892
00:47:03,940 --> 00:47:06,070
We might not be able to get our final
brief out in time.

893
00:47:06,070 --> 00:47:07,020
We send out a draft.

894
00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:08,660
We get comments and input.

895
00:47:08,660 --> 00:47:10,160
We finalize it.

896
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,690
But, [SOUND] one of the core theme
strategies we use in our

897
00:47:13,690 --> 00:47:19,620
brief is that we try to make it persuade
anyone who reads it.

898
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:22,030
That what we're proposing is a good idea.

899
00:47:22,030 --> 00:47:25,200
So, it shouldn't just talk to the
government as a regulator.

900
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,260
It should talk to business.

901
00:47:27,260 --> 00:47:29,470
It should talk to the disability
community.

902
00:47:29,470 --> 00:47:30,640
It should talk to the media.

903
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,820
It should be persuasive to anyone.

904
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:38,100
We find that we are at the same time
educating and informing our community and

905
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,400
indeed convincing members of our community
at

906
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,510
the same time as we're trying to convince.

907
00:47:42,510 --> 00:47:44,030
And persuade the government.

908
00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:46,250
And if our arguments are full of holes
that the, somebody

909
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:50,110
in the business or the broader public
sector might say that's wrong.

910
00:47:50,110 --> 00:47:51,670
We don't want that kind of argument out
there.

911
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:53,690
Because if they shut it down, it undermi,
we'd

912
00:47:53,690 --> 00:47:57,710
rather have arguments that are strong and
that are unassailable.

913
00:48:00,450 --> 00:48:03,030
In our briefs, and if you look at any of
them.

914
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:06,490
And some of the community members say,
Lukovsky, how can

915
00:48:06,490 --> 00:48:08,990
you write a 100 page document and call it
a brief?

916
00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:12,070
But what we will do is begin with a
summary.

917
00:48:12,070 --> 00:48:15,490
And if all you read is the summary, that's
all you need.

918
00:48:15,490 --> 00:48:17,110
Gives you enough.

919
00:48:17,110 --> 00:48:19,400
But then we will provide an explanation of
who we

920
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,560
are, and what our agenda is, or what our
priorities are.

921
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,810
And then we'll go through and make
specific recommendations and if it's

922
00:48:25,810 --> 00:48:30,200
for legislation we may offer specific
wording we want and will explain why.

923
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,020
And you're able to read, if you look at
one

924
00:48:32,020 --> 00:48:35,260
of our briefs is if it's commenting on a
bill.

925
00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:37,800
It'll say section so and so provides X.

926
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,230
Here's whats wrong with it, here's what we
recommend.

927
00:48:41,230 --> 00:48:43,920
And we will then aggregate all our
recommendations in

928
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,580
an appendix so, again if you don't have
time

929
00:48:45,580 --> 00:48:47,410
to read the whole thing, you can look at

930
00:48:47,410 --> 00:48:50,700
the appendix and read all the
recommendations in one place.

931
00:48:50,700 --> 00:48:53,050
So whether you read or somewhere or just
the appendix.

932
00:48:53,050 --> 00:48:54,200
There's a lot there for those who

933
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,480
don't wanna read the whole hundred page
document.

934
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,620
But for the people who gonna do the detail

935
00:48:58,620 --> 00:49:01,370
policy work, they've got the detail policy
work there.

936
00:49:02,540 --> 00:49:07,100
Let, let me now talk very briefly about
the formal

937
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:10,650
process of going to a standing committee
of the legislature.

938
00:49:10,650 --> 00:49:14,520
One particular process that is [SOUND]
doesn't come up very

939
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,250
often and is worth leaping on whenever the
opportunity arises.

940
00:49:18,250 --> 00:49:19,840
Is when there is committee before the
legisla,

941
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,670
of the legislature holding hearings on a
bill.

942
00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:25,490
A bill gets voted on for first reading and
then second reading, and then

943
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:30,740
it may be sent to a standing committee for
hearings and then clause-by-clause debate.

944
00:49:30,740 --> 00:49:33,210
Our coalition, both my current one and its

945
00:49:33,210 --> 00:49:38,370
predecessor, was active on several bills
that concern us.

946
00:49:38,370 --> 00:49:40,910
And in each case what we will do, is we
will

947
00:49:40,910 --> 00:49:44,700
put out a little four or five page primer
to our membership.

948
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:46,810
On how a bill goes through the
legislature.

949
00:49:46,810 --> 00:49:49,200
Most lay people don't know about the first
reading versus

950
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,880
second reading private member versus
public bill clause by clause debate.

951
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,670
What kind of amendments are permissible,
what's not?

952
00:49:56,670 --> 00:49:58,964
So we actually spoke to the house of the
clerk

953
00:49:58,964 --> 00:50:01,568
of the legislat, or the office of the
clerk and the

954
00:50:01,568 --> 00:50:04,668
legislature year ago, got our [SOUND] own
kind of primer from

955
00:50:04,668 --> 00:50:09,010
them, summarized it, and made it available
to educate our community.

956
00:50:09,010 --> 00:50:10,900
I ended up having the clerk's office
actually ask

957
00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:12,780
me if they could circulate it in other
contexts.

958
00:50:12,780 --> 00:50:14,756
And we said sure, if it's that helpful,
you

959
00:50:14,756 --> 00:50:16,790
gave us the ideas [LAUGH] we just wrote it
down.

960
00:50:18,290 --> 00:50:22,270
But hearings before the legislature are an
important platform.

961
00:50:22,270 --> 00:50:23,940
Now I will tell you formally,

962
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,260
they are not the place where the action
occurs.

963
00:50:28,260 --> 00:50:29,980
In other words, hearings.

964
00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:34,640
And clause by clause debate are the staged
activity but

965
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,350
it's in the back room that the decisions
are made.

966
00:50:37,350 --> 00:50:39,930
But that doesn't mean that either of them
are unimportant.

967
00:50:39,930 --> 00:50:42,210
During hearings it's important to get as
many groups

968
00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:46,380
lined up to participate, to encourage them
to sign up.

969
00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:49,010
And to get them to come before the
standing committee

970
00:50:49,010 --> 00:50:51,930
so the committee hears from as many people
as possible.

971
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:53,990
Standing committees like to hear from
organizations,

972
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:56,500
but they love to hear from individuals.

973
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:59,880
Cuz to politicians, hearing from John or
Jane Q

974
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:04,080
Public may be more interesting, or more
compelling to them.

975
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,190
Than some organization that's got a brief
that's all lawyered up and

976
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:12,350
thought through and polished and media
scanned and all that sort of thing.

977
00:51:12,350 --> 00:51:17,040
So both can make a huge difference, and
some of the most one of the

978
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,010
most amazing presenters and we've had
many,

979
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:21,770
is a woman named Penny LaClaire in Ottawa.

980
00:51:21,770 --> 00:51:24,450
Penny is deaf and blind, and she went

981
00:51:24,450 --> 00:51:27,540
before, I've heard back from politician
after politician.

982
00:51:27,540 --> 00:51:30,930
All political parties, and its just not,
its not patronizing, always

983
00:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,010
not wonderful a deaf-blind person could do
this in that kind of.

984
00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:35,640
Patronizing stuff.

985
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,490
They found her to be powerful as a

986
00:51:37,490 --> 00:51:42,030
speaker and her describing the barriers
facing people deaf

987
00:51:42,030 --> 00:51:44,910
and blind, articulated at a standing
committee by someone

988
00:51:44,910 --> 00:51:48,800
who is both deaf and blind was, was
extraordinary.

989
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,280
Many other examples over our years of
people who have done that.

990
00:51:53,290 --> 00:51:56,200
Indeed, I've been most delighted when I
watch

991
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,990
or read transcripts of hearings on bills
we've done.

992
00:51:58,990 --> 00:52:00,940
When people that we've never met or heard

993
00:52:00,940 --> 00:52:04,610
of come forward, possible borrowing our
ideas, often

994
00:52:04,610 --> 00:52:07,280
coming up with their own, but meeting our

995
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,950
goal of harmony not, in making our, our
message.

996
00:52:11,950 --> 00:52:15,050
One of the odd things you may think about
in.

997
00:52:15,050 --> 00:52:17,210
In the political, in the hearing
processes, they will,

998
00:52:17,210 --> 00:52:19,430
they will give you ten or fifteen minutes
or whatever,

999
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:21,510
and they'll often tell you, use what time
you

1000
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:24,640
want and then the rest is used left for
questions.

1001
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,230
Should you leave time for questions?

1002
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:30,130
There are in community advocacy a million
strategy calls.

1003
00:52:30,130 --> 00:52:30,980
Here's an example.

1004
00:52:32,460 --> 00:52:33,380
Of one.

1005
00:52:33,380 --> 00:52:36,540
In a court room, I love when a judge asks
question, cuz it's

1006
00:52:36,540 --> 00:52:38,910
an insight into their, their, their
reasoning

1007
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:41,310
process, their thinking whatever is
worrying them.

1008
00:52:41,310 --> 00:52:42,580
Standing committee not so much.

1009
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:44,730
I'm not afraid of questions.

1010
00:52:44,730 --> 00:52:46,650
But what I find is politicians tend to

1011
00:52:46,650 --> 00:52:49,400
make long speeches in their question, and
eat up

1012
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,140
all the time and then they'll ask a
question

1013
00:52:51,140 --> 00:52:53,449
like, so do you think people disabilities
need more?

1014
00:52:54,570 --> 00:52:57,380
After they make this long speech and all
of the sudden if

1015
00:52:57,380 --> 00:53:01,280
you had fifteen minutes and if you left
seven for for questions.

1016
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,420
You've had a long and by the way this is
not limited to any

1017
00:53:05,420 --> 00:53:07,700
political parties and it could be
politicians

1018
00:53:07,700 --> 00:53:09,960
who agree with you or disagree with you.

1019
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,690
Either which way I find often not
exclusively but often

1020
00:53:12,690 --> 00:53:15,830
that questions eat up time that I'd rather
tie up.

1021
00:53:15,830 --> 00:53:18,750
I'd rather use more effectively in our
actual presentation.

1022
00:53:20,750 --> 00:53:23,630
Let me talk to you briefly about clause by
clause debate.

1023
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:27,670
Oh, excuse me, public hearings, like a,
one more thing about public hearings.

1024
00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:30,880
Public hearings, like a public
consultation can be

1025
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,730
used as a platform to get media coverage.

1026
00:53:32,730 --> 00:53:34,120
Media often don't cover them.

1027
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,714
But there are some ways.

1028
00:53:35,714 --> 00:53:39,800
To improve the capacity for there to be
coverage.

1029
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,100
There is one committee room at Queens Park
that is wired

1030
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:45,700
to be broadcast on the parliamentary

1031
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:48,610
channel, the provincial parliament,
legislature channel.

1032
00:53:48,610 --> 00:53:53,680
If the legislature is not sitting, that
hearing goes live.

1033
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:55,210
And then we'll get replayed.

1034
00:53:55,210 --> 00:53:58,840
So I one thing we've done in the past is
try to actually lobby to get

1035
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,280
our hearings in that room on days when

1036
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,260
the legislature, or hours when the
legislature's not sitting.

1037
00:54:04,260 --> 00:54:09,260
It also provides and opportunity to get a,
a DVD recording of made of

1038
00:54:09,260 --> 00:54:13,240
the, of the brought, of the event, and
then put it up now on YouTube.

1039
00:54:14,340 --> 00:54:16,120
A phenomenal opportunity.

1040
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:20,000
Now clause by clause debate over a bill is
a hugely

1041
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,730
complex subject, I'm only going to give
you a couple of head-liners.

1042
00:54:23,730 --> 00:54:27,190
It's where they amendments from my other
party can be tabled.

1043
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:29,420
It's important to understand first that
you don't just walk in

1044
00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:33,390
and say, by the way here goes, can you
propose amendments now?

1045
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:37,680
They are thought our before clause by
clause starts, after the hearings.

1046
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,620
And on an important bill, each government
will announce what amendments

1047
00:54:40,620 --> 00:54:44,280
they're gonna table, often the day before
the clause by clause begins.

1048
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,590
To get to that, so the really decisive
point

1049
00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:49,630
is when the parties table what their
amendments will be.

1050
00:54:49,630 --> 00:54:51,810
To that end, what you need to do is to get
to the three

1051
00:54:51,810 --> 00:54:55,800
parties while the hearings are still going
on, giving them a list of your priorities.

1052
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,380
They may come out of your bill.

1053
00:54:57,380 --> 00:55:00,870
And then what each party may do is decide
what they wanna propose,

1054
00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:04,060
and they give it to an office at the
legislature called Legislative Council.

1055
00:55:04,060 --> 00:55:08,100
They're lawyers who work for the
legislature, not for any particular party.

1056
00:55:08,100 --> 00:55:11,320
They will draft amendments for whichever
politician asks.

1057
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,250
You've gotta make sure you get your
package

1058
00:55:13,250 --> 00:55:16,770
of ideas to each party early enough that
they

1059
00:55:16,770 --> 00:55:19,120
can get it to Legislative Council in time
for

1060
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,890
it to be drafted and tabled with the
committee.

1061
00:55:21,890 --> 00:55:24,210
When the committees actually voting.

1062
00:55:24,210 --> 00:55:28,830
And I don't mean any disrespect for the
members who sit, but there's often someone

1063
00:55:28,830 --> 00:55:31,460
who is determining on behalf of the
government

1064
00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:34,060
or the opposition which they're gonna go
for.

1065
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:38,320
And you will see a process in the
committee room of staffers passing

1066
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,250
notes back and forth, either on the
government side or on the opposition side.

1067
00:55:42,250 --> 00:55:45,630
It's important to develop a relationship
with those staffers.

1068
00:55:45,630 --> 00:55:47,500
And I often have a good relationship.

1069
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:50,690
I teased one that I was gonna intercept my
notes and switch in mine.

1070
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:53,945
They didn't think it was funny.

1071
00:55:53,945 --> 00:55:54,848
>> [LAUGH]

1072
00:55:54,848 --> 00:55:58,952
>> But and often there's [COUGH] a
chance to, not often, but there

1073
00:55:58,952 --> 00:56:03,602
can be a chance to negotiate wording of
amendments right there in the lobby.

1074
00:56:03,602 --> 00:56:05,121
Either with some of the members of the

1075
00:56:05,121 --> 00:56:07,560
committee or with some of the staff
members.

1076
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:12,670
But it's important to not, to understand
that the formal, what's going on at the

1077
00:56:12,670 --> 00:56:17,639
committee is often driven by a lot of this
informal process going behind it.

1078
00:56:23,496 --> 00:56:27,090
The final thing I wanna tell you about
amendments, and then I wanna, I wanna.

1079
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,265
I wanna conclude by a few, just a

1080
00:56:30,265 --> 00:56:33,705
couple of minutes talking about dealing
with the media.

1081
00:56:33,705 --> 00:56:38,409
it, with every strategy move, it's
important to look at

1082
00:56:38,409 --> 00:56:42,320
its benefits in the short run and the long
run.

1083
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,640
Like, you, you might think that well,

1084
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,530
every time the government votes down an
amendment.

1085
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:47,960
That's just a big loss.

1086
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:49,630
And so we lost, just like if you're in

1087
00:56:49,630 --> 00:56:51,900
court, you argue a case, you lose, it's a
loss.

1088
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:54,780
Not so fast.

1089
00:56:54,780 --> 00:56:57,790
Amendments can have long-term
consequences.

1090
00:56:57,790 --> 00:57:00,250
Let me give you a couple of illustrations.

1091
00:57:00,250 --> 00:57:04,410
In 2001, the then-conservative government
under Mike Harris

1092
00:57:04,410 --> 00:57:07,100
proposed a Disabilities Act, but a weak
one.

1093
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:08,800
We asked for certain amendments.

1094
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,630
The opposite, we got the liberals and the

1095
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:15,380
NDP in opposition to propose a bunch of
them.

1096
00:57:15,380 --> 00:57:16,690
Again, got to them early enough.

1097
00:57:16,690 --> 00:57:19,170
They went through legislative council.

1098
00:57:19,170 --> 00:57:20,780
Got drafted, and so on.

1099
00:57:20,780 --> 00:57:22,468
The government of majority voted them all
down.

1100
00:57:22,468 --> 00:57:23,960
Swung on a.

1101
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,540
A short range view would say, oh, this is
an example of.

1102
00:57:27,950 --> 00:57:29,710
Of you know just straight out loss.

1103
00:57:29,710 --> 00:57:31,420
Why waste the time?

1104
00:57:31,420 --> 00:57:33,760
But they were really important for us.

1105
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:36,710
They were important because, by getting
the NDP

1106
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:39,040
and the liberals to propose them our view

1107
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,950
was we put the NDP and the liberals

1108
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:44,340
on the record supporting the amendments
they were proposing.

1109
00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:47,010
So when we went into the 2003 election,
these

1110
00:57:47,010 --> 00:57:49,810
amendments were proposed in 01 and, and
voted down.

1111
00:57:49,810 --> 00:57:52,000
We went to the liberals and the NDP and
each house

1112
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,980
for commitments that they would pass a
dis, stronger disabilities act.

1113
00:57:55,980 --> 00:57:58,730
That would, among other things, embody the
substance of

1114
00:57:58,730 --> 00:58:01,070
the amendments that they had proposed two
years earlier.

1115
00:58:01,070 --> 00:58:03,300
Well, what's the party gonna do, say, no,
no, we,

1116
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:06,470
if elected, will not do that which we
criticized the.

1117
00:58:06,470 --> 00:58:10,590
Tory government for refusing to do, and we
asked them to do.

1118
00:58:10,590 --> 00:58:13,470
And in fact, for example, if you look at
the letter Dalton

1119
00:58:13,470 --> 00:58:17,990
McGuinty wrote to our coalition during
the, on April 7 on 2003.

1120
00:58:19,070 --> 00:58:21,410
Promising a disabilities act if elected,
he said,

1121
00:58:21,410 --> 00:58:23,700
among other things, it would embody the
substance.

1122
00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:25,610
Incorporate the substance in the
amendments

1123
00:58:25,610 --> 00:58:27,450
that they proposed two years earlier.

1124
00:58:27,450 --> 00:58:28,660
So that's one way they can help.

1125
00:58:28,660 --> 00:58:30,155
There's another way they can help.

1126
00:58:30,155 --> 00:58:36,280
In' 05 the McGinty liberals passed the a
stronger disability act.

1127
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,910
We proposed amendments, the government
made some of them,

1128
00:58:38,910 --> 00:58:43,260
but the opposition proposed others that
the government wouldn't accept.

1129
00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:44,920
Now again you might say.

1130
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:46,250
Well, you're working with the government,
that you've got a

1131
00:58:46,250 --> 00:58:48,380
good relationship with now, they were
really open to us.

1132
00:58:48,380 --> 00:58:51,360
But you didn't get everything you wanted,
isn't that a loss?

1133
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,110
The answer is, not so fast.

1134
00:58:54,110 --> 00:58:58,090
Some of the things we proposed in '05 and
we didn't get, we

1135
00:58:58,090 --> 00:59:02,240
always, can, we can keep in our, in our
hip pocket for future events.

1136
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,330
So when some after a couple of years

1137
00:59:04,330 --> 00:59:07,180
of experience under the Disabilities Act
from 05

1138
00:59:07,180 --> 00:59:10,620
to 07 we found out that certain things

1139
00:59:10,620 --> 00:59:13,390
weren't working as well as in the
government thought.

1140
00:59:13,390 --> 00:59:15,330
So we could come back to the government
and take

1141
00:59:15,330 --> 00:59:18,700
some of the ideas from the amendments we
proposed and lost.

1142
00:59:18,700 --> 00:59:22,920
And pitched them to the government for
election commitments as policies.

1143
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,200
And some of them, we succeded on.

1144
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,730
2009, the government was required under
the Disabilities Act

1145
00:59:28,730 --> 00:59:31,990
to appoint an independent review of the
Disabilities Act.

1146
00:59:31,990 --> 00:59:33,510
And there were certain things that we

1147
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:35,170
thought things weren't working as well as
they

1148
00:59:35,170 --> 00:59:37,170
could and we told the independent
reviewer,

1149
00:59:37,170 --> 00:59:39,970
Charles Beer, here's how you should fix
it.

1150
00:59:39,970 --> 00:59:41,850
Gave a list of ideas, some of which were

1151
00:59:41,850 --> 00:59:45,420
things we proposed in 05 and the
government turned down.

1152
00:59:45,420 --> 00:59:47,400
We could turn to Charles Beer, an
independent reviewer,

1153
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,930
and say, you know what, four years later,
turns out

1154
00:59:49,930 --> 00:59:51,660
we had good ideas that should have been
considered,

1155
00:59:51,660 --> 00:59:55,680
and you know what, some of our ideas he
recommended.

1156
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:57,995
So things that we initially proposed as
amendments

1157
00:59:57,995 --> 00:59:59,790
in' 05 were turned down at the time.

1158
00:59:59,790 --> 01:00:02,590
Some were adopted as a matter of
government policy in' 07.

1159
01:00:02,590 --> 01:00:04,920
Some an independent review proposed in
'09.

1160
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,544
And some of them of the '09

1161
01:00:07,544 --> 01:00:12,170
recommendations are now being implemented
years later.

1162
01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:14,440
So, we're in it for the long haul.

1163
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,000
But there are long haul consequences that
could be good.

1164
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,620
Even from things you thought were bad
news.

1165
01:00:20,620 --> 01:00:21,790
Concluding with some media.

1166
01:00:23,060 --> 01:00:26,240
Could be the subject of not only a
lecture, but a whole course.

1167
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,410
[LAUGH] Let me just give you a couple of
key points.

1168
01:00:28,410 --> 01:00:32,300
The media are of course, a really
important avenue, for

1169
01:00:32,300 --> 01:00:36,790
any kind of community advocacy and
organizing to convince the public.

1170
01:00:36,790 --> 01:00:38,370
And also to signal the government and the

1171
01:00:38,370 --> 01:00:41,709
opposition that you're a force worth
paying attention to.

1172
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:48,140
When you try to go to the media to bring a
story a few thoughts in mind.

1173
01:00:48,140 --> 01:00:51,850
Number one, it's an advocacy exercise with
the media, just as

1174
01:00:51,850 --> 01:00:55,750
much as it's an advocacy exercise bringing
an issue to the government.

1175
01:00:57,030 --> 01:01:01,770
Journalists are similarly overworked,
overburdened, understaffed,

1176
01:01:01,770 --> 01:01:03,320
And under a lot of pressure.

1177
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,830
You gotta get to the point with them even
more quickly than with anyone else.

1178
01:01:06,830 --> 01:01:08,650
Or at least as quickly as anybody else

1179
01:01:08,650 --> 01:01:12,270
in the, in the government or opposition
parties.

1180
01:01:12,270 --> 01:01:13,690
When you write a news release.

1181
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:17,930
You are, in effect, writing a news story.

1182
01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:21,140
It should be written such that they
couldn't write it any better.

1183
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:22,780
It should make the point, it should
include

1184
01:01:22,780 --> 01:01:25,330
quotes and so on, and if a reporter really

1185
01:01:25,330 --> 01:01:27,500
likes it, and they're too busy, they
should be

1186
01:01:27,500 --> 01:01:30,170
able to literally cut and paste liberally
from it.

1187
01:01:31,718 --> 01:01:34,853
Just as it's the ultimate compliment when
a judge cuts and pastes

1188
01:01:34,853 --> 01:01:38,460
from [UNKNOWN] that a lawyer files in
court, or a brief in court.

1189
01:01:38,460 --> 01:01:40,800
It's similarly a compliment if a
journalist decides

1190
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,390
that part, of your new release made the
point.

1191
01:01:43,390 --> 01:01:48,530
You should be ready for the fact that
news, you will bring

1192
01:01:48,530 --> 01:01:54,360
the media lots of stories of which only a
small number will get picked up.

1193
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,800
It's important never to get despondent
from that.

1194
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,260
It's like fishing, you throw the line, I
don't mean you're fishing for stories

1195
01:02:01,260 --> 01:02:06,010
but you throw that line in a million times
and then you get a bite.

1196
01:02:06,010 --> 01:02:08,310
Celebrate the bites you get and build on
them.

1197
01:02:08,310 --> 01:02:10,730
When the media first hears about you and
your community they

1198
01:02:10,730 --> 01:02:14,759
won't know anything about you and you have
to build your credibility.

1199
01:02:15,770 --> 01:02:17,100
A, you've got to build just as you

1200
01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:19,410
have to build relationships with political
parties, you've

1201
01:02:19,410 --> 01:02:22,260
got to build relationships with
journalists and over

1202
01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:23,810
time they will come to get to know you.

1203
01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:27,450
There are times you will call a reporter
to say I'm not calling with a story today.

1204
01:02:27,450 --> 01:02:30,900
I just had some background I thought might
help you, so that they're not fearful, you

1205
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:32,160
don't want them fearful that every time
they

1206
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,390
see your phone number on their call
display.

1207
01:02:34,390 --> 01:02:35,840
No it's another story I'm busy.

1208
01:02:37,170 --> 01:02:40,840
It's important to build that kind of
relationship.

1209
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,980
I believe that one should be as hold ones

1210
01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:47,680
of two, as highest standard when giving
information to a

1211
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:50,750
news organization or at a news conference,
as you

1212
01:02:50,750 --> 01:02:54,330
would apply yourself when making arguments
in a court room.

1213
01:02:54,330 --> 01:02:56,910
Whether you are a lawyer or not, I think
it's important

1214
01:02:56,910 --> 01:03:00,260
for your credibility and that of your
coalition not to overstate

1215
01:03:00,260 --> 01:03:03,370
things, not to say things you can't back
up even if

1216
01:03:03,370 --> 01:03:05,440
you think they would have a lot of zing to
them.

1217
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:10,610
And not to even accede a to question from
a journalist

1218
01:03:10,610 --> 01:03:12,999
that you'd love to agree to, but you
really don't know.

1219
01:03:14,420 --> 01:03:18,290
I have found in the end that my experience
working with

1220
01:03:18,290 --> 01:03:22,570
the media has helped me as a lawyer in my
day job.

1221
01:03:22,570 --> 01:03:27,110
We lawyers, are wordy sorts, as I've
mentioned in a couple of other lectures.

1222
01:03:27,110 --> 01:03:29,410
And there's a huge pressure to get to the

1223
01:03:29,410 --> 01:03:34,530
point, with the, with, radio or print or
television journalism.

1224
01:03:34,530 --> 01:03:38,140
And, it's one of the le, lessons that I've
learned that

1225
01:03:38,140 --> 01:03:42,750
has really helped us at the, the pithiness
and the to the

1226
01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:47,060
point clarity that the journalist demands
of us is something that I

1227
01:03:47,060 --> 01:03:51,680
believe should be taught in law school as
a standard writing skill.

1228
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:52,326
Let me.

1229
01:04:01,777 --> 01:04:07,850
Let me conclude by saying creativity,
creativity, creativity.

1230
01:04:07,850 --> 01:04:10,470
In any of this community advocacy, it's
not just a matter

1231
01:04:10,470 --> 01:04:14,290
of what did somebody else do, it worked,
you try it.

1232
01:04:14,290 --> 01:04:17,270
Look for new ways of doing things.

1233
01:04:17,270 --> 01:04:20,580
If you're giving stories to the media and
they're not taking them up.

1234
01:04:20,580 --> 01:04:23,380
Look for other ways to reach the public
through the media.

1235
01:04:23,380 --> 01:04:25,560
Write a guest column for the newspaper.

1236
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:30,440
They might let you write a story even if
they wouldn't cover the story themselves.

1237
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,090
That's happened a number of times.

1238
01:04:32,090 --> 01:04:35,890
Find avenues where the media has an open
vehicle to reach the public.

1239
01:04:35,890 --> 01:04:38,450
Call in, the radio is superb for this.

1240
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,630
Don't sweat a news conference where you

1241
01:04:41,630 --> 01:04:44,540
didn't get any, any reporters or any
coverage.

1242
01:04:44,540 --> 01:04:47,460
Now we have technology we didn't have ten
years ago.

1243
01:04:47,460 --> 01:04:52,320
Bring a, a, a web cam or a video cam,
record it, post it on YouTube.

1244
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,810
The news conference remains vibrant even
if

1245
01:04:54,810 --> 01:04:57,660
there's no journalist there, if we
preserve

1246
01:04:57,660 --> 01:04:59,270
it on YouTube and then start using

1247
01:04:59,270 --> 01:05:02,380
Facebook, Twitter and e-mail to spread the
word.

1248
01:05:02,380 --> 01:05:04,790
Just Google, go to our AODA Alliance

1249
01:05:04,790 --> 01:05:06,400
YouTube channel and you'll see what I
mean.

1250
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:11,980
Don't sweat losses.

1251
01:05:11,980 --> 01:05:13,900
Not only in the legislature, in the media.

1252
01:05:13,900 --> 01:05:15,690
Some of the most important days in

1253
01:05:15,690 --> 01:05:19,890
our campaign for accessibility got no
media attention.

1254
01:05:19,890 --> 01:05:22,380
Some of the worst days in terms of things
not going

1255
01:05:22,380 --> 01:05:28,420
well, later became the platform for things
that turned out really well.

1256
01:05:28,420 --> 01:05:32,610
And, remember that no matter how many
times.

1257
01:05:32,610 --> 01:05:34,410
You think you know how to do it.

1258
01:05:34,410 --> 01:05:38,240
There is a member in your community who's
gonna think of something better.

1259
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:43,110
Whether it's Michael Lewis and his guitar
or someone else

1260
01:05:43,110 --> 01:05:46,330
in that situation who'll come up with
something that will resonate.

1261
01:05:46,330 --> 01:05:50,530
Always be open to other people coming up
with new ideas.

1262
01:05:50,530 --> 01:05:53,580
I welcome the opportunity to speak to you
about this.

1263
01:05:53,580 --> 01:05:58,610
And I am eager to find ways for us to
teach this in law school.

1264
01:05:58,610 --> 01:06:01,720
So that it becomes part of the repertoire
of advocacy for

1265
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,520
lawyers not just in the court room but in
the community.

1266
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:05,335
Thank you very much.

1267
01:06:05,335 --> 01:06:12,733
[SOUND]